Self Care through a Neurodivergent, Decolonized Lens (Rest, Pacing, and Ease) with Jamila Reddy
Audio engineering by Hasan Insane
Episode 05 of “Dreaming Different” imagines how to design a life around your own unique needs through the practice of radical self-care.
Jamila Reddy, a lifestyle designer, transformational coach, and highly sensitive/neurodivergent person, helps address questions such as: What does self-care look like for a neurodivergent person day-to-day? What does self-care look like at the intersections of neurodivergence, race, and queerness? How do we continue to affirm our needs in an extractive, capitalist society, and what challenges may arise in doing so?
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“I love the language of experiment. Really all the time I tell people, assume the posture of a researcher. You are your own subject, study yourself, get really curious and figure out the conditions you need to thrive. Figure out— this is how you feel when you do this, this is how you feel when you do that. Just try it. And being willing to experiment is such a beautiful skill.”
—Jamila Reddy
Transcript
Jezz
Welcome to Dreaming Different, I'm your host Jezz Chung and today's guest is Jamila Reddy who's someone so so so so so so so so so so special and dear to me so I'm really excited for this conversation. And to kick us off I'm gonna start with a visual description of myself today. As you know from previous episodes, I am Korean. I have long black hair, tattoos kind of scattered across my arm and today I'm wearing this lilac fitted halter top, purple is my favorite color of all time and across my eyes I have like tiny fireworks bursting across my eyes and I individually placed gems to make this visual illustration on my eyes. And Jamila, I'll kick it off to you for a visual description.
Jamila
Hello, I'm Jamila and I am a Black queer person. The sides of my head are shaved and the top of my hair is in a bun. I'm wearing a cream mesh long sleeved shirt and I am on a day bed surrounded by pillows of varying textures and plants.
Jezz
Gorgeous, the plants do look lovely and they're framing you so perfectly.
Jamila
Thanks.
Jezz
So I'll start off with the question. Well actually before we get into the questions, I'd like to share how Jamila and I met. It was during the pandemic and I feel like it was through Ethel's Club which has now kind of evolved into Somewhere Good. And I think I took a class or workshop from you. And I immediately felt this feeling of oh my gosh, this is exactly what I need to hear and exactly the way I need to hear it. And you know, one of my neurodivergent traits and plus I'm a writer, is that I'm very sensitive to language. So anytime someone uses language that's either too cliche or insensitive in any way, I automatically shut down. I'm not super proud of that trait but it is what it is and I remember listening to you, your visuals were just so earthy, you had a very clear color palette that just kind of spoke to your aura in general. And your voice, the sound and tone of your voice was so soothing which makes sense because you do guided meditations and just everything you were saying, I was like oh my gosh who is this person? We must meet, I need to at the very least let them know that you have just changed my life in the span of this workshop and I think after that we've just been in touch. And I feel like we've just kind of been these long distance care partners for each other and we'll text each other sometimes how we're feeling and we'll check in on each other and share celebrations with each other which I love but you've really deeply impacted my life in that I think you're someone, and I really feel this way about people who I really love deeply with my soul, that you show people what's possible. And you absolutely do that to me for me every time you post something online or we have a conversation, you just really show me what's possible in terms of how to hold yourself, how to hold life. You've lived so much life. For people listening I really encourage you to just look through @jamilareddy’s Instagram feed and the life that you've lived and the way that you've lived it is just so phenomenal to me. So that's the impact you've had on me, I’ll pause there for a sec.
Jamila
Thank you, I love it , love that you slid in the DMs. You were like, hello I think we should be friends. I don't know if you said we should be friends, actually I think what you said was I would love to talk about books we’re reading or share resources and I thought that was so noteworthy that you were like, we have resonance and I would love to share with you, I would love to nerd out with you. It was a specific invitation to be a nerd in that you were like, I love the things you love, let us love together. And I was like actually it's a yes for me. It's an enthusiastic yes. And we had a Facetime, our very first Zoom where we were like, here all of the nerdy things.
Jezz
I mean we literally shared our screen with each other and just shared like spreadsheets and design and book lists and that was the start of a beautiful friendship.
Jamila
Yes, that was it. I was like, I love it here. So thank you for you from the beginning.
Jezz
Yes, yes. So the kickoff question I have for you is, what are you thinking differently about lately?
Jamila
Okay, there is a part of me that does not want to answer this question authentically. But then there's the part of me that can't lie on the spot and what I'm thinking differently about is monogamy and polyamory.
Jezz
Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa! Tell me more, tell me tell me more tell me more [sung in the tune of Summer Nights from Grease the musical].
Jamila
So for the last 7 years, I've identified as ethically non-monogamous slash polyamorous and it made a lot of sense for me at the time, as a person who deeply values sovereignty, autonomy, freedom, authenticity, transparency. My ethos is very much aligned with the sort of ethos of ethical non monogamy that we're free beings and that love is abundant and that pleasure should be abundant and that our relationship should help us meet all of our desires as opposed to sacrificing some of them. So I felt really aligned with this idea of abundant love and being able to move freely through relationships and the truth is now, the way my nervous system is set up, I'm aligned with the values but the practice had me overstimulated for almost a decade. This nervous system going through chaos, I mean so much to navigate. And so I'm thinking differently about relationships and my needs and the benefits of monogamy.
Jezz
Oh wow. Which is okay, let's ground in the fact that to say that as queer people of color, especially, I know you don't live in New York anymore but where I live in New York, it's almost so rare to find a queer person of color who isn't poly, right? So I feel like I don't know, for maybe in heteronormative standards it's kind of courageous or vulnerable to say I'm thinking about being poly, but you're like, I've been down that route and now I’m saying that’s not for my body.
Jamila
Right? Well, you have to sort of do the what I call an alignment check-in, an assessment and is that working for you? Is it feeling good and I'm like actually no. Every time I've done it, it's very challenging for many reasons. And I was also in a long distance polyamorous relationship which like please no thank you because so many of my needs are so in person, so in the moment. And so I sort of felt like I was agreeing to not have my needs met and so yeah, I'm thinking differently about having all of my needs met and what got me thinking differently, the origin of it was 1— a friend of mine was like, a loving invitation for you to consider whether or not you are in fact, polyamorous. I was like hot take! Love it when a friend can provide a compassionate hot take on your life. I was like, thank you for that. And then when I was having another isolated conversation and someone asked me, we were talking about polyamory and non-monogamy and I was saying I think that in knowing that people are not need fulfillment machines, knowing that our capacities vary and our availabilities vary, and our desires vary, it makes sense to me that we would not rely solely upon one person to fill up our cup, to be the source of all of our needs being met, and they said well, have you ever had all of your needs met in a partnership? Another compassionate hot take, right?
Jezz
Oh woooow. I mean even in a friendship, does any friend fulfill all of our needs? Oh my gosh. Okay, well since we're going here. Okay, a few things come up for me. One, in terms of neurodivergence and understanding our needs and our very much changing, fluctuating capacities, I did not realize that this was connected to me being autistic or neurodivergent that sometimes, I would have panic attacks after having sex because of the overstimulation of the body and I mean sex is a very stimulating experience not just physically, but emotionally, mentally and everything. And I thought there was something wrong with me, I was like well, do I have some trauma that I don't know about or what's going on with my…. I just thought that there was something wrong until I realized it has something to do with sensory overload and that's part of the autistic framework and everything that I learned, and then another thing that comes up is you know, I’ve been thinking a lot about poly in terms of friendships lately. I think about being in poly relationships with my very closest friends in terms of, I need that quality time, I need those words of affirmation, I need for us to be making mutual, reciprocal effort to understand each other, to learn about each other, to support each other. And I think doing that almost helped me take the pressure off of focusing on one friend being the go-to, like you said, need-fulfilling machines. We are taught to see people as that, especially if we have this relationship and then we build expectations and then we think because you are one of my best friends or because you are my partner, you have to fulfill this need that I'm asking for. Which kind of brings me to, jumping around here, but something else I've learned a lot from you and something I think you're so skillful at is boundaries. Practicing boundaries without guilt and without that, I don't know, you correct me if I'm wrong, but this aftertaste that can come sometimes of, I set the boundary and then now there's this aftertaste and did I do it the right way did I do it kind enough, did I word it enough, am I allowed to set the boundary with that person. But I think the way that you set boundaries, again it goes back to, you give me permission to then in our relationship and our friendship set those boundaries too.
Jamila
Yes, I think setting boundaries without guilt is something that I developed skillfulness at over time and I think a lot of times people ask, how do I do it without guilt? You do it with guilt enough times and then eventually you don't feel that. I mean I feel the same way about wearing a bra, I remember I was like I'm not gonna wear a bra anymore and it felt like the most radical thing ever and it's been like 10 years and I'm like yeah, I don't even notice. I wanted to share one point about the poly thing which is, I don't feel settled or clear right now which is okay, just to say when I'm thinking differently about something, I'm giving myself permission to sort of exist in the space of curiosity around it. 'm like oh, I'd never considered, and so I'm in a space of consideration and that I'm also reflecting on how we can separate an identity from a practice. So I'm a writer but I'm not always writing. I might be polyamorous and not be practicing polyamory or in a polyamorous relationship and I mean it's similar I think to queer identity where you can be queer as a single person, you can be poly as a single person, and so giving myself permission to sort of separate the identity from the practice and say it's okay for me to be in a moment of not practicing polyamory because that feels like the kindest thing to do to my nervous system in this moment but that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm not polyamorous anymore and I don't have to figure it out with any sense of urgency. Like the boundary around not rushing, I have a strong boundary around not rushing and that includes me not rushing myself. I'm like no, you will not rush me, me to me.
Jezz
How do you tune into that? How do you tune into that in your body and be like, I need to slow down or I need permission to exist in these multitudes?
Jamila
I've spent so much time practicing feeling good that not feeling good is immediately noticeable and I have a low tolerance for it because I spent so much time not having a choice. I didn't have a choice on whether I could feel good or not. My sister died. My dad died. I went through a breakup. I was virtually homeless. And so I did not have a choice. I wanted so badly to feel good and I couldn't so when I do have the choice, I'm absolutely choosing ease and I'm absolutely choosing what feels best. I have such a low tolerance, I'm like no, I'm not going to choose it for myself. That's how I feel about rollercoasters, when people go to roller coasters and haunted houses. I'm like no, I don't want to, it does not resonate for me as a highly sensitive person. I'm like why would I choose to be scared, I only want to be scared when it happens by accident and I have no control over like oh, you startled me! But I'm not going to choose to be scared. I feel that way about discomfort. I think people have this, it's so noble to be uncomfortable. I'm like why?
Jezz
Why!! This is something we bond over a lot too, like why don't you choose ease?! Oh my gosh that is ah, I don't understand the point of scary movies or horror movies. And sometimes I feel like I simply cannot relate to wanting to watch scary or horror movies because I have an actual phobia, if I were to watch one I would have panic attacks for days and nightmares it would completely throw off my schedule. This was very much a problem when I was younger and people, of course when you're younger, you don't understand people's needs, you don't understand boundaries. So when I was telling my friends I can't watch a scary movie, they're like oh you'll be fine, you'll be fine, you’ll be fine. They would make me watch it and I would have a panic attack, they would not know how to take care of me. It's a whole thing and I really think that cannot be said enough. Especially in this time we're in, where things are hard, right? Financially, all the inflation and prices are rising, the news cycle and the pandemic still isn't over. I just read this morning, there's like 3 new viruses coming this winter, there's just so much. So, it's like your point of, whenever we can choose to feel good, why not choose that? Whenever we can choose ease, why not choose that? And I think especially I think as people of color or queer people or any person of a non-dominant identity, it’s kind of taught like resiliency, build up your resiliency because life is going to be tough and there's this narrative that we have to toughen our skin in order to survive it. But in that line of thought for me, it's more like well, in order to take care of myself, I have to feel good because I've also experienced chronic depression since I was young. Why would I want to keep living if life is going to keep being hard? If I accept that narrative that life is going to be hard and scary and terrifying and lonely, why would I want to keep living? So I have to believe that my dreams are all going to come true, that I'm already living in a lot of my dreams. I have to believe in connection, I have to believe in a culture of care, I have to believe that living a life of ease and joy is possible.
Jamila
And it is. I mean I tell people all the time, you don't have to believe it at first. It's okay to think it. Just entertain the thought. If you don't believe it , hat's fine. That's okay. Start with being willing to entertain the thought, what if? A lot of the manifestations that I've realized have been from me being like, what if I didn't work 5 days a week? What if I did work that didn't feel like work? Whatever it was, just entertain, being willing to entertain the thought long enough for it to become a belief. Got to start somewhere, like it's okay to think it. But I'm like, the thought feels better. That is a better thought, that I'm gonna be okay. I might not believe that in the moment but thinking it feels better than “I'm not going to be okay, I'm not gonna make it.”
Jezz
I love that as a practice and a compass. Does this thought feel good? If not, let's move on to the next one. Does this thought feel good? Oh, nope, then let's move on to the next one. Because I think especially I've really been working on over the past few months kind of coming into my superpowers as an autistic person. I'm so tired of this limiting narrative of, I want to act, I want to be in movies, I want to be in films, I want to be on TV, I want to be in musicals, I want to be on stages, that's something that took me pretty much a decade to admit to myself and one of the reasons why it took me that long was because I didn't see people like me. And then once I realized I was autistic I was like oh gosh, autistic, Asian, nonbinary, queer, Korean actor? No, like show me. And so I think for anyone who doesn't really see themselves, I've always had to be my biggest source of permission and always say alright, if this limiting thought doesn't feel good, what can feel good? Well, I can do it my way. That's something I always tell myself. I know you and I are both big on affirmations and that's something we bond over, affirmations are a practice of manifesting too because we affirm, I feel good, I get to do things my way, I get to move at my pace, I don't need to be rushed. Those are all things that I think is so antithetical to what we're taught within the systems that we live within. But what do you feel like supports you to continuously affirm to yourself and maintain those practices? Is it the reward of feeling good?
Jamila
I love that question. Yes, absolutely. I mean the reward is how I feel most days. It's being in moments that I imagined, that I dreamt about and prayed about. I’m like oh, It's not for nothing. It's not like, think a different thought so that…I'm like no, it's so your actual life can change so you don’t have to be at a staff meeting at eight thirty in the morning doing some bullshit you don't want to do. I mean living in, being on the other side. I talk about this all the time, it’s like whoa, I feel very much right now on the other side. I was at a point where I was like, I know all things are temporary, I know there is no destination, but I would loooove to be talking about this experience in the past tense. And I feel like I'm in a space where I'm like oh yes, back then. An old version of me used to…. And that is the thing that compels me to keep practicing and to be disciplined and to continue sort of going within and doing the work. It’s because it makes a difference and the difference is felt in my everyday life, in my everyday life.
Jezz
And that's why it's a lifestyle. I know lifestyle design is something we both practice.
Jamila
Exactly, yes. Lifestyle. I was reflecting the other day about the importance of the style. The style part of lifestyle. It's the way of doing things. I don't have a choice about the what I'm doing a lot of the time. And that is just true. I mean I think there's this kind of like froofroo manifestation paradigm that we can just choose to feel better in a moment but it's like if you can't choose to feel bad or not bad, then how are you going to feel bad? I'm going to feel bad on the beach, I'm going to feel bad surrounded by friends, I'm going to feel bad in the sun, I'm going to feel bad while I'm eating right? It's the way I'm doing it. It's not the what and the whole point of lifestyle design is choosing the way you do things. Of course it's choosing what you do, but mostly it's choosing the way you do it. The posture that you hold while you're navigating life. And so I feel like I choose a posture of optimism. That's what I mean when I say I choose my thought, I'm just deciding to do it hopefully. That's just it, I'm just choosing to do it with a spirit of levity and a sense of humor, that's the way I'm doing it. So I was like yeah, the style part, it really is, like we all have our own way of doing our own style. So I'm like yeah, that's what I just want to encourage people to choose a style that just feels good. Like I think it's important.
Jezz
Exactly, exactly. I'm so enamored by you right now. I feel like my nervous system, there's a term called co-regulation, right? Especially for anyone who does have a very sensitive nervous system, when you're around someone and you just feel really settled and you're kind of like, I think of it scientifically from a quantum physics standpoint if we are emitting certain molecules and vibrations, it's everything from the tonality of our voice to the language that we're using to our body posture to the way that we look, the light particles that we're emanating from our face and our body and our hair. If I can describe somatically, I feel a big wave of calm from my neck down to my torso. Everything feels super settled almost as if day to day, it might be fireworks all around, it’s like someone just put a hand and said all right, you can you can rest now, all the thoughts….that’s how I feel in my body now and that’s how I know I’m enamored.
Jamila
[Laughs] I love that for you.
Jezz
That's what it is though, it's permission giving. I very much resonate with being on the other side. For me, I quit my job in September 2020 because I was just thinking about this other day in that it was impossible to keep my life the same when I was changing at such a rapid pace. For me to be doing all this inner work and from a sociopolitical standpoint, learning about abolition, learning about transformative justice, disability justice, the neurodiversity paradigm, realizing I'm autistic, huge revelation. All of these things and then for my environment, my day to day to not change, there was a huge cognitive dissonance that I got physically sick. I was like this is not this is not okay for me, my environment is not supporting everything that I am and everything I want to be. So I feel like since leaving that , we talk a lot about adding in spaciousness to our life. I mean, if we could even define ease. Let's define ease for a second, what does ease feel like and what does ease look like in terms of lifestyle?
Jamila
For me, ease feels like absence of effort. Like I'm not trying to do, I'm not pushing, not resisting, I'm not lifting, I'm not carrying. It's just like absence of effort. The opposite of effort. And it feels like a sense of being settled in my body. I remember a couple years ago having a therapy session and just getting on the call and just being like, I am so tired of feeling like every day I wake up and there is a problem in my life to be solved. I cannot wait until I rise in the morning and my brain is not immediately like alright, all systems go towards figuring this shit out. I was like, I'm tired of it. I just want to wake up and not have to think about doing something different immediately. Like got to fix your housing, got to fix that relationship, got to fix the job, got to fix the thing. So for me, ease feels like feeling settled, being here, being here without mentally being in the past or present. It's just settled, grounded, easy.
Jezz
I feel like you just summarize mindfulness. I think mindfulness is something that is thrown around so much that it almost kind of loses its meaning or people kind of roll their eyes like, I can't be mindful, I have too many problems in my life, I have too much going on in my life. And I think especially for neurodivergent people, when nothing is really designed by default for people with different needs or different pace then it gets kind of exhausting always trying to advocate for yourself or always offering up a different option. There's labor that goes into that. There's labor that goes into like, hey can we actually try this in a different way or hey actually I need this, hey can you accommodate for this. But I think almost the work is in getting to that place for me mentally because then things just unlock, then everything becomes easy and that's what I think I try to tell myself when I think, oh you're not working hard enough because that's how you get this. That's how you meet your goals. That's how you manifest. That's how you live your dreams, by working, working, grinding, grinding, hustle, hustle. That's what we're taught. But I think it's in that work of permission. And of affirming and of opting out.
Jamila
And for me, it's not wanting to journey towards something in a way that I wouldn't want… I feel like a lot of the times, people will try to pursue a goal or a vision with this kind of frantic, urgent posture or energy. And if I have to rush, I literally don't want to go. I was like oh I either can do this conversation an hour later because I'm not rushing. So either we can do it an hour later or we won't do it today because I don't want to do it if the price that I have to pay to get there is my wellness and my inner peace. I'm like mm mm, for what. And is it not the whole point, think about every single thing that you want. Isn't every single thing that you want for the purpose of you feeling a way that you want to feel? Well I have the choice in this now moment to feel how I want to feel, so why would I choose a feeling I don't want to feel in the pursuit of one that I do? My brain just can't make sense of that.
Jezz
Make it make sense.
Jamila
It doesn't, I want to feel exhausted, raggedy, overwhelmed and overstimulated so that I can feel stable? No. There's another route, there's another way, I don't have to take that path. That is one path. A lot of people choose it. But I'm good.
Jezz
My friend once said rushing is a form of ableism and ever since she said that, it completely reframed rushing for me. Why am I rushing? Sometimes well, it mostly comes up with friends at this point because I've really designed my life around community and friendship so when I'm meeting a friend I'm like oh my gosh I can't be late because I respect their time and it's kind of this hyper empathy thing for me of, I wouldn't want someone to do that to me. But then when I catch myself thinking that, I'm like actually I wouldn't want someone rushing for me. I'm really good at entertaining myself, like very good. I will always find something to do and I'm always communicative. So I feel like as long as someone's communicative, take the time that you need. But it really is kind of this framing around what are the narratives that we hold and we kind of try to mold ourselves into, which I think is so much of what the neurodiversity paradigm is trying to teach us of what are the things we try to fit ourselves into and really question, does it actually work for us? Does it actually support us? Does it actually contribute to our wellness and our joy and really sustain? I think it's about sustaining ourselves too, I want to be around in 10 years, I don't want to be so burnt out that I turn into a recluse or so depressed that etc etc, I don't want that to happen. I want to sustain this life and I think that just comes from a lifestyle of always checking in and always tuning into what my body needs at any given moment.
Jamila
I'm curious about how you came to have that perspective because I am thinking about a beloved person that I love so much who I just wish so much that they had that perspective of an unwillingness to endure. And I wonder how do you come to a place where you have that perspective of yeah, I get to really check in and say, is this working for me and if it's not, choosing something different rather than being willing to prolong it. I mean people stay in unsustainable situations all the time and I mean my heart right now, it's a big question that I have. How do I support people in seeing that they don't have to stay in situations that aren't working for them. So I'm just curious, how did you get there?
Jezz
I think part of it is that I have low distress tolerance. And distress tolerance is I think like a CBT or DBT term about how much distress can you tolerate? How much discomfort can you hold in your body. For me, it's not a lot. And it goes back to that's why I can't watch scary movies. That's why I cannot finish a meal that I don't like. I just simply refuse. I've really learned to just exit conversations if I don't like them. I'm getting kind of better at literally just pivoting, about pace, and then just turning away and being okay with that. And I think that's in my process of unmasking which is really hard because I feel like there's so much taught, especially within an Asian culture of really prioritize respect not to make anyone feel like they're not worthy of your time or your respect et cetera. But I think that's where my autistic traits help me because I don't have a lot of distress tolerance. I am so tuned in to pleasure and I will orient myself around pleasure at all costs and if I feel distressed, then it takes over my entire body. It'll literally suffocate me sometimes, that's when I have the panic attacks. That's when I can feel when I'm in a low mood, I can immediately feel when something's draining me. And then I think, physically can't stay in this so I have to do something else and then I don't know, am I answering your question?
Jamila
Yes, you are. The answer is that you have a low distress and discomfort tolerance and so you're like, I can't. Not a choice, I just can’t.
Jezz
Yes. Yeah, I can’t help it. It's not a choice but I will also say sometimes this kind of prevents me from sticking with things too and I think that's where the ADHD comes into play and really understanding how can I improve my discipline in some ways. I want to find a softer word for discipline though because it feels so military. It's almost like devotion, there we go, it’s devotion.
Jamila
Yes, devotion, that’s good.
Jezz
How do I stay devoted to it. And I think what comes up now is, I'm really proud of myself for sticking to these singing lessons that I've been taking for by the time this comes out 2 years weekly. Every single week, I spend an hour on Zoom with my vocal coach and we work on my voice, we do vocal warmups, and we sing different songs and I explore my range. And this is the longest time that I've committed to something weekly. HUGE for me because my mood will fluctuate, there's times where I feel tired that week and I can't sing as louder. But I think it’s something that brings me so much joy that I keep remembering that and going back to what you said about the reward. That is the reward, the joy is the reward for me. So I know that maybe I'm not in the mood right now to sing but I know I'm going to feel good after I sing because evidence has shown me, the social experiment of my life has shown me, that every time I sing I feel good.
Jamila
And I love the language of experiment because really, that's so much of what I know to be true is because I was like, I don't know, I don't know, gonna do the experiment. Really all the time I tell people, asssume the posture of a researcher. You are your own subject, study yourself, get really curious and figure out the conditions you need to thrive. Figure out, this is how you feel when you do this, this is how you feel when you do this. Just try it. And being willing to experiment is such a beautiful skill.
Jezz
Every emotion is a piece of information. Every thought is a piece of information too. Yeah, okay, well we really could go on and on and on and on but to be respectful of your time and listeners time. I'll wrap this up with a few final questions and the first one is, what is some language that you use to advocate for yourself? This could be in personal relationships or professional interactions. What is an example of some way that you've advocated for yourself and your needs?
Jamila
Definitely saying that I'm a highly sensitive person and then I will say, which means I am very sensitive to sensory stimulus including sounds, smells, fragrances. So I just made this request. It was such a beautiful cultural moment where I was like, I'm living in the future! Where I was in a community space and we were going around introducing ourselves saying our name, our pronouns, where we were from, and an accessibility need or request that we had while we're in the space or something to be mindful of. I loved that because I got to say, I'm Jamila, I'm highly sensitive which means please leave your bath and body works at home. Please. I can’t, I can’t.
Jezz
Specifically bath and body works [laughs].
Jamila
Or like your little glade plugin, you have to take it out when I come to your house. You have to take it out, I can't be in your house for longer than 10 minutes if you got those glade plugins all around [laughs].
Jezz
I'm literally smelling it now as you say, it's so strong.
Jamila
So yeah, I say the language that I use to advocate for myself is that I'm really sensitive to sensory stimulus so there may be times where I ask for there to be an adjustment made in the environment so that I can be more present.
Jezz
I love that last part too. So I can be more present, because who wouldn't want that.
Jamila
Right? Right? Exactly. Like just so you know, if you got the fluorescent bulbs on, mentally I'm somewhere else. Mentally I'm somewhere with soft lighting because please, I'm using all my tools of creative visualization right now to not leave my body but the lights are too bright, it’s too loud, and it stinks. Help me. Yeah, so that.
Jezz
[Laughs in relatability]
Jezz
Okay, beautiful. And okay, speaking of creative visualization, something we also bond over a lot. What do you want the future to feel like? In your ideal future, what does it feel like?
Jamila
It feels safe. It feels playful. It feels connected. It feels open, free. It feels joyful. It feels supported and it feels beautiful. And beautiful not just as a visual, but that feeling of “I'm so glad to be alive,” I have these moments sometimes where I'm like I'm so glad that my spirit assumed a body. I am so glad that I get to see this and feel this and so I want that for all of us, that we just are just delighted to be here.
Jezz
I want to be there all the time. Yeah, we deserve that.
Jamila
Right? That feeling of like wow, I'm so glad to be a human.
Jezz
Yes, we all deserve that. We all deserve that future. Oh wow, okay I text you this occasionally sometimes randomly but I'm going to say it on this audio series to archive it and to really speak it. I really hear your voice in so many spaces in the future. Just like kind of, in the “spiritual communities,” Abraham Hicks is someone that everyone knows and listens to and if you type in “Abraham Hicks,” we know there's like 100 videos on YouTube, I really see that for you because I think the ways in which you're talking about ease, care, rest, life, how to live life is something that we really really need and is just somatically so settling and something that I think every time we have a conversation, I feel like it propels me into the future that I want to be in more. So I just really see that for you and I'm so excited for that day when you're signing all those books at your book signing and I'm like first in line and when you're on that stage and I'm in front row like yes, yes, yes. And because yeah, I'm just so excited for people to hear this.
Jamila
Asé, yes.
Jezz
And if you're listening, I hope you can just take deep breaths and I feel like this deserves rewinds and rewinds and replays and I encourage you to listen how I've been listening and engaging in this conversation this whole time, with deep belly breaths and my spine has been really straight [this is the position comfortable for me, I encourage you to find a position comfortable for you], my chin's been parallel to the ground. I've been in cross-legged position and just feeling so settled in my body and I'm so thankful for you Jamila. I'm so thankful for our friendship and for your mind and your practices and the ways that you share your practices and tell us how we can support you and where we can find you and if you have anything that you'd like to share with people listening.
Jamila
Thank you so much and thank you for holding that beautiful vision. One of my prayers is to be used for the highest good of all. Really and truly, I just want to get to the end of my long, long, long, long, long long life and feel like I really shifted the trajectory of humanity and that is a prayer that I hold so deeply in my heart and I know that having my voice amplified is in alignment with that prayer. So for everyone holding that prayer with me, I thank you, I thank you sincerely. Thank you, thank you. So you can connect with me on my website jamilareddy.me. I'm on Instagram @jamilareddy. You can send me an email. I offer one on one coaching, I have lots of courses and workshops and I'm hosting my first retreat in either November or December of 2023, of this year, and so there's still time. My vision is that it's for us, the highly sensitives, you already know it's about to be lovely and luscious and so if you're feeling like you want a beautiful curated opportunity to rest and enjoy, that is available to you. So check it out. I'm sure it'll be on my website, on my Insta. And yeah, that’s it.
Jezz
Beautiful. Oh I'm so there at that retreat. I'm so there.
Jamila
Yes, please. I would love that.
Jezz
Yes, alright. Well thank you for listening everyone, and thank you Jamila for this conversation.
Jezz
Thanks for tuning into Dreaming Different, hosted by Jezz Chung for Deem Journal’s Audio Series. If there’s anything in this episode that resonated with you, we invite you to be a part of our exploration in collective dreaming by sharing Dreaming Different with people you know and leaving a review on any podcast platform. Reviews are immensely helpful for our reach and impact. Also as a neurodivergent tip, I find that I process information more deeply when I listen or read something for a second time after I’ve had some time to digest it. Sometimes I even listen on 1.5 or 2x speed and that feels really good for my brain. Sharing those tips in case they can support you in processing all of this delicious information.
Big thanks to the entire team at Deem: Alexis Aceves Garcia, Jun Lin, Jorge Vallecillos, Alice Grandoit-Sutka, Isabel Flower, Nu Goteh, Jorge Porras, and Amy Mae Garrett for their contributions to the ideation and production of this series. Special thank you to Nu Goteh for composing the dreamy music you hear throughout the series. It took so many conversations, iterations, and practices of spaciousness to bring Dreaming Different to you and we hope it helps expand your ideas of the future, the world, and the possibilities we can create together.
If you’re new to Dreaming Different, we recommend checking out the introductory episode, which lays out the origins of this series, what we intend to explore throughout the episodes, and my personal journey with the neurodiversity paradigm. Episode 1 also includes some somatic and mindfulness tools to use if you feel any discomfort or tension while listening.
You can find the complete series including transcripts and show notes at deemjournal.com/audio and Deem Journal on Instagram at @deemjournal. I’m Jezz Chung, you can find me @jezzchung across social media, and I hope you do something to take care of yourself today and all the days ahead.
Thank you for dreaming with me.
Show Notes
Jamila Reddy
Somewhere Good
